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MAGAZINE Ingredients
INTERVIEW ANGELA D‘ORAZIO
78 exciting editions, 117 awards, 43 gold medals in 20 business years. Mackmyra, the first single malt distillery in Sweden, is one of the clearers of the whiskey scene. Behind this success is a woman: Angela D’Orazio.
A s a master blender, she has an unmistakable sense of taste for good recipes, which she sometimes creates in the middle of the night in her kitchen when she is inspired. The expert tells BOTTLE magazine what the everyday life of a master blender looks like, what it is like as a woman in the industry and how you come up with the idea of making whiskey with the help of artificial intelligence (AI).
BOTTLE: Seriously: Do you really wake up in the middle of the night, have a brilliant idea and run to the laboratory in your pyjamas?
ANGELA D‘ORAZIO: (Laughs.) Yes, that can happen. I have a small kitchen laboratory at home, and if I have an idea, I test it right away - even if I'm in my nightgown. I will later take the idea with me to the large laboratory in the office and continue working on it there.
You have developed many successful whiskeys. How do the ideas come about?
They come in conversation with others, while eating or drinking, when I try other spirits. There are many ways in which you can come up with a good idea. The important thing, however, is to collect them and write them down immediately so that they are not lost.
And how did you get the idea of making whiskey with the help of AI?
The idea came from Mackmyra and I was asked if I would like to take on the project and if I would like to be a mentor. The idea was really unconventional and new ground in terms of whiskey. I got an excited feeling in my stomach and knew: We have to do this!
Creating whiskey recipes is a complex creative process. You smell, taste, try. How do you do that with AI?
An artificial intelligence approach was developed together with the Finnish technology company Fourkind and Microsoft's cloud computers. The production method was not affected, only the mixing part. To do this, we have fed the AI with detailed information about our more than 75 individual bottlings, data on maturation, fermentation, distillation, taste, popularity with customers and awards. The AI then spat out a wide range of different recipes, some more interesting than others. After trying it out several times, we identified the recipe that we ultimately decided on.
Is your job in danger now?
(Laughs.) No! The machine cannot replace the expertise and taste of a master blender or a person.
The new product "Intelligens AI: 01" will also be tasted at the BOTTLE MARKET. Please tell us how it tastes.
Intelligens is a golden yellow Swedish single malt with an aroma of vanilla, caramel, citrus fruits and pear. The taste is unusually deep and earthy, fruity with a distinctly spicy oak note and the finish is alternately dry and sweet with a long, engaging aftertaste.
Sounds very promising. How have the reactions been so far?
This has caused quite a stir around the world and no doubt it has upset some purists. Some people even thought it was all some kind of marketing list to get attention. But it wasn't. We see AI as part of our digital evolution and it's very exciting to be incorporating it into the whiskey making process. For me as a master blender, it's great to be able to say that I'm now a mentor for the world's first AI whiskey.
How many barrels do you taste a day?
When sampling, i.e. putting together a product, around 30 to 50 barrels a day.
You're sure to be in a good mood all day.
(Laughs) I don't drink anything, I test and then spit out.
How do you know when a barrel is ready to be bottled?
It has a lot to do with knowledge and experience. For example, I am familiar with our Mackmyra products and how they behave. I also know our barrels and how many years they take to mature. When I create a new product and in the end, I need ten barrels of it, I have 15 barrels filled with the distillate. After the storage period, I try all 15 barrels and know: Okay, this barrel is ready now, this one is not or this one tastes fantastic, put my hook behind it and hand the selection over for filling.
Do you still like to drink whiskey privately as a master blender?
Yes, very much. In phases when I blend and try a lot of whiskey, I drink less privately to save my tongue for work. Then I drink tea in the evening so my taste buds come down and my tongue relaxes.
You were once quoted as follows in an interview: "Whiskey is one of the most pleasant things in life that I personally don't want to miss." Would you explain that a little?
It's just nice to work with whiskey. It's such a great material that comes out in so many and varied variations when it is produced. You also meet so many wonderful people who also like whiskey.
How do you become a master blender?
Many come from the chemical industry, have worked in a laboratory for years or were assistant to a great master blender and have developed further. It was a little different for me. In retrospect, I think it was fate. At least looking back, it looks like it (laughs). When I met the managing director of Mackmyra, Magnus Dandanell, I had worked with whiskey and tested whiskey for years. I also had very good mentors from the business who supported me. When I finally got into Mackmyra, I was the only person with good sensors for taste nuances.
After Helen Mullholland of Bushmills Irish Whiskey, you are the second woman to be inducted into the Whiskey Hall of Fame by the trade journal “Whiskey Magazin” this spring. What is it like as a woman in the whiskey industry?
Of course, I can only speak for myself and I've had good and bad experiences. Overall, the climate is good. But there are also sexist sayings and attitudes.
According to the motto: give the woman a light liqueur, she has no idea about whiskey?
That wouldn't be sexist, it would just be stupid. People make jokes about how you look as a woman, that you only got your job because you were sexy, because of your look or how you would move. A man would never hear such comments. Once, in front of the assembled crew, someone said to me that I would drink whiskey as if I were putting a penis in my mouth.
Excuse me?!
It's a very sexist way to belittle and humiliate a colleague, a woman. Afterwards I spoke to the man and we buried the hatchet. But you don't forget something like that and these are things that you can't get out of your colleagues' heads. It brands you. This is just one example of sexism and of a very, very low-level kind that can happen to you and also influence you. And if you are not careful, you can become insecure and uncomfortable.
Does envy also play a role?
Blending whiskey is a traditional craft that was practiced by men and for the most part still is today. And master blending is a very respected area. It is practically the coronation that can be achieved in this segment. There is a kind of resistance against women in the industry, according to the motto "Women have no business here!" Men are also more highly regarded in the industry, which is why it can be very difficult for women to assert themselves.
Are there many women in the industry?
Outside of Scotland it is easier for women to work in the whiskey business because the tradition described above does not exist to the same extent as in Scotland. Although there are one or two women there who have worked their way through and up, it is still easier in Sweden, the USA or Germany to approach the whiskey business as a woman through a completely different career.
What would you advise women who want to work in this industry?
You should follow your heart and believe in yourself. If you enjoy working with whiskey, so you should. It means hard work and it takes passion. You have to hang in there. However, if it isn't fun, then it is not for you. This advice applies to everything in life. (Laughs.)
Let's talk about Scandinavia, i.e. Norway, Finland, Sweden, Denmark, Iceland, as a young whiskey region. What is the difference between Scandinavian whiskey and whiskey from traditional countries?
There is currently no Scandinavian identifier or a specific whiskey or taste profile. This is because many in Scandinavia aim to produce a whiskey outside of Scotland that is just as good as a Scottish one. But there are also manufacturers who look for and go their own way. At Mackmyra, we also orient ourselves towards Scottish whiskey, but we want to be Swedish about it. And for this we use Swedish ingredients, such as barley or baker's yeast from the area. The Finnish manufacturer Kyrö, for example, uses its own rye to make whiskey.
Is there a Scandinavian community in the industry?
The only thing we have in common is that we follow the rules of the European whiskey regulation. There is no uniform flavour and no way of doing it. Everyone does their own thing. Otherwise, the Scandinavian products differ in their production methods. For example, there is a Swedish producer who makes a flowery, aromatic whiskey because it is stored in warm halls.
Where do you see Scandinavian whiskey in the next 15 years, how will it develop?
The distilleries that find and follow their own recognizable path will survive. This is also important in order to excel in the market. Everyone else will have a hard time. What is important to me personally is to produce whiskey in an environmentally friendly way. And that could be the Scandinavian way or a Scandinavian brand.
BOTTLE: Seriously: Do you really wake up in the middle of the night, have a brilliant idea and run to the laboratory in your pyjamas?
ANGELA D‘ORAZIO: (Laughs.) Yes, that can happen. I have a small kitchen laboratory at home, and if I have an idea, I test it right away - even if I'm in my nightgown. I will later take the idea with me to the large laboratory in the office and continue working on it there.
You have developed many successful whiskeys. How do the ideas come about?
They come in conversation with others, while eating or drinking, when I try other spirits. There are many ways in which you can come up with a good idea. The important thing, however, is to collect them and write them down immediately so that they are not lost.
And how did you get the idea of making whiskey with the help of AI?
The idea came from Mackmyra and I was asked if I would like to take on the project and if I would like to be a mentor. The idea was really unconventional and new ground in terms of whiskey. I got an excited feeling in my stomach and knew: We have to do this!
Creating whiskey recipes is a complex creative process. You smell, taste, try. How do you do that with AI?
An artificial intelligence approach was developed together with the Finnish technology company Fourkind and Microsoft's cloud computers. The production method was not affected, only the mixing part. To do this, we have fed the AI with detailed information about our more than 75 individual bottlings, data on maturation, fermentation, distillation, taste, popularity with customers and awards. The AI then spat out a wide range of different recipes, some more interesting than others. After trying it out several times, we identified the recipe that we ultimately decided on.
Is your job in danger now?
(Laughs.) No! The machine cannot replace the expertise and taste of a master blender or a person.
The new product "Intelligens AI: 01" will also be tasted at the BOTTLE MARKET. Please tell us how it tastes.
Intelligens is a golden yellow Swedish single malt with an aroma of vanilla, caramel, citrus fruits and pear. The taste is unusually deep and earthy, fruity with a distinctly spicy oak note and the finish is alternately dry and sweet with a long, engaging aftertaste.
Sounds very promising. How have the reactions been so far?
This has caused quite a stir around the world and no doubt it has upset some purists. Some people even thought it was all some kind of marketing list to get attention. But it wasn't. We see AI as part of our digital evolution and it's very exciting to be incorporating it into the whiskey making process. For me as a master blender, it's great to be able to say that I'm now a mentor for the world's first AI whiskey.
How many barrels do you taste a day?
When sampling, i.e. putting together a product, around 30 to 50 barrels a day.
You're sure to be in a good mood all day.
(Laughs) I don't drink anything, I test and then spit out.
How do you know when a barrel is ready to be bottled?
It has a lot to do with knowledge and experience. For example, I am familiar with our Mackmyra products and how they behave. I also know our barrels and how many years they take to mature. When I create a new product and in the end, I need ten barrels of it, I have 15 barrels filled with the distillate. After the storage period, I try all 15 barrels and know: Okay, this barrel is ready now, this one is not or this one tastes fantastic, put my hook behind it and hand the selection over for filling.
Do you still like to drink whiskey privately as a master blender?
Yes, very much. In phases when I blend and try a lot of whiskey, I drink less privately to save my tongue for work. Then I drink tea in the evening so my taste buds come down and my tongue relaxes.
"Whiskey is one of the the most pleasant things in life that I personally don't want to miss. "
You were once quoted as follows in an interview: "Whiskey is one of the most pleasant things in life that I personally don't want to miss." Would you explain that a little?
It's just nice to work with whiskey. It's such a great material that comes out in so many and varied variations when it is produced. You also meet so many wonderful people who also like whiskey.
How do you become a master blender?
Many come from the chemical industry, have worked in a laboratory for years or were assistant to a great master blender and have developed further. It was a little different for me. In retrospect, I think it was fate. At least looking back, it looks like it (laughs). When I met the managing director of Mackmyra, Magnus Dandanell, I had worked with whiskey and tested whiskey for years. I also had very good mentors from the business who supported me. When I finally got into Mackmyra, I was the only person with good sensors for taste nuances.
After Helen Mullholland of Bushmills Irish Whiskey, you are the second woman to be inducted into the Whiskey Hall of Fame by the trade journal “Whiskey Magazin” this spring. What is it like as a woman in the whiskey industry?
Of course, I can only speak for myself and I've had good and bad experiences. Overall, the climate is good. But there are also sexist sayings and attitudes.
According to the motto: give the woman a light liqueur, she has no idea about whiskey?
That wouldn't be sexist, it would just be stupid. People make jokes about how you look as a woman, that you only got your job because you were sexy, because of your look or how you would move. A man would never hear such comments. Once, in front of the assembled crew, someone said to me that I would drink whiskey as if I were putting a penis in my mouth.
Excuse me?!
It's a very sexist way to belittle and humiliate a colleague, a woman. Afterwards I spoke to the man and we buried the hatchet. But you don't forget something like that and these are things that you can't get out of your colleagues' heads. It brands you. This is just one example of sexism and of a very, very low-level kind that can happen to you and also influence you. And if you are not careful, you can become insecure and uncomfortable.
Does envy also play a role?
Blending whiskey is a traditional craft that was practiced by men and for the most part still is today. And master blending is a very respected area. It is practically the coronation that can be achieved in this segment. There is a kind of resistance against women in the industry, according to the motto "Women have no business here!" Men are also more highly regarded in the industry, which is why it can be very difficult for women to assert themselves.
Are there many women in the industry?
Outside of Scotland it is easier for women to work in the whiskey business because the tradition described above does not exist to the same extent as in Scotland. Although there are one or two women there who have worked their way through and up, it is still easier in Sweden, the USA or Germany to approach the whiskey business as a woman through a completely different career.
What would you advise women who want to work in this industry?
You should follow your heart and believe in yourself. If you enjoy working with whiskey, so you should. It means hard work and it takes passion. You have to hang in there. However, if it isn't fun, then it is not for you. This advice applies to everything in life. (Laughs.)
Let's talk about Scandinavia, i.e. Norway, Finland, Sweden, Denmark, Iceland, as a young whiskey region. What is the difference between Scandinavian whiskey and whiskey from traditional countries?
There is currently no Scandinavian identifier or a specific whiskey or taste profile. This is because many in Scandinavia aim to produce a whiskey outside of Scotland that is just as good as a Scottish one. But there are also manufacturers who look for and go their own way. At Mackmyra, we also orient ourselves towards Scottish whiskey, but we want to be Swedish about it. And for this we use Swedish ingredients, such as barley or baker's yeast from the area. The Finnish manufacturer Kyrö, for example, uses its own rye to make whiskey.
Is there a Scandinavian community in the industry?
The only thing we have in common is that we follow the rules of the European whiskey regulation. There is no uniform flavour and no way of doing it. Everyone does their own thing. Otherwise, the Scandinavian products differ in their production methods. For example, there is a Swedish producer who makes a flowery, aromatic whiskey because it is stored in warm halls.
Where do you see Scandinavian whiskey in the next 15 years, how will it develop?
The distilleries that find and follow their own recognizable path will survive. This is also important in order to excel in the market. Everyone else will have a hard time. What is important to me personally is to produce whiskey in an environmentally friendly way. And that could be the Scandinavian way or a Scandinavian brand.
